November Project: Question #1
The first question this year comes from Cat:
My question is about thoughts. My current strategy for dealing with the minutiae of mental chatter is to remember Nisargadatta's admonition to see thought as illusion and just drop it.
I have heard many statements and phrases on dropping thought over the years. I find it fascinating people are so interested in this, as it is such a superficial thing. Not superficial in the sense of it being unimportant, because it must be seen for what it is. But many think of the dropping of thought as the end of all ends without looking into it, or even questioning if it is, in fact, a possibility.
Many questions arise from this, which is good. We'll take a look at a few of those...
Why does one hope to drop thought? Forget about whether or not it is possible for the moment. Why does one want to be free from the movement of thought? Is it to free oneself from a discomfort of some kind? Or perhaps because a respected teacher says to drop thought is of the highest importance?
You mentioned chatter, Cat. But what is wrong with chatter, or with thinking? Is there something wrong with chatter, or is there a thought thinking something is wrong with chatter?
This leads into another line of questioning...
What hopes to free itself of thought and thinking, and who is the one wanting to drop it? You might say, "It is me!" but what is 'me'? What is the 'me' that hopes to drop thought?
I am not trying to point out that the 'me' is an illusion. (If one hopes to free oneself of thought, the 'me' is clearly there, illusory or not.) I just want to know what it is. What is this thing that wants to free itself of chatter, that wants to drop thought?
Most likely, you only feel the 'me' through conflict. In other words, you only really know it is there when it rises to resist something. I am not saying this is true, but look within yourself and try to find this thing called 'I'. If the 'I' rises in reaction, rises in conflict, is the problem really with thinking or chatter? Or is it a problem of resistance to thinking and chatter?
Is there ever a problem with thinking? Or is it merely a problem of resistance and interference?
You'll have to go into this on your own, but you may find that the 'me' is no different from what it hopes to be free from. If that happens to be true, just relax into the loving arms of those beautiful sisters and brothers you've resisted for so long!
Do you have any other advice? Does it get quieter "in there" when one continues to just drop thought? Your thoughts (!) on the matter are deeply appreciated.
Nice last sentence, Cat. ;-)
As long as one hopes to drop thinking and thought, it will never be quiet. The noise comes from the interference, from the resistance.
Look within and tell me, tell us, what you see. Is there really a problem of thinking, or a problem of the chatter? I am not trying to lead you in one direction or another. Where do YOU see the problem. Where is the issue?
I hope this is not frustrating for you. I know it would be great if someone were to say, "Do this, this, and this, and your thoughts will drop!" (If you look online for a bit, I'm sure you'll find plenty of people telling you how, haha.) But why anyone would want to do that is beyond me. To grab someone's answer to thought and thinking and try to put it on like an ill-fitting hat...I just don't get it. (I'm not saying you have, or will do, any of that, by the way.)
But you've asked me, so I will tell you how thought and thinking appears to Takuin. As far as knowledge and memory is concerned, thought arises as it is needed. It works, I imagine, as it should. If I need particular information, and if those grooves have been dug deeply enough, the answer is readily at hand.
However, in the last five years, as far as I know, I have never hoped for there to be any more or less of thinking or thought. I cannot see that as an actual possibility anyway, but what I think about it is really irrelevant. There is thinking, and there is no thinking, and it is all a part of the same movement much like living and dying. I can't really imagine what it is to resist, or to hope for a better thought.
Thought is a necessary function of the organism. Belief in, or resistance to thought, is not.
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I don't know that I have answered your question satisfactorily, but I at least hope is begins a dialogue...if not with me or the commentors here, with yourself. If you have any other questions, or if I should clarify something, please let me know in the comments below.
I look forward to hearing from you again, Cat! :-)
14 comments, since Nove
''Who am I?'' This was the fundamental question that Ramana Maharshi always advocated and pointed people towards - what you say resonates so much with that!
Thank you for your illuminating answers... Anjali
The thing that doesn't want thought is another thought. Resistance is suffering, I feel. What doesn't want resistance is another thought, I guess. And on and on goes the loop.
What or who is that which suffers? It is very difficult to step outside and see clearly. There has to be some sanity, some visibility to see.
Takuin: "There is thinking, and there is no thinking, and it is all a part of the same movement much like living and dying"
Thanks for this.
First, I always enjoy your November project. Thanks for doing another.
Second: "What hopes to free itself of thought and thinking, and who is the one wanting to drop it?" It seems that no matter which way one chooses to go, spiritually speaking, one always ends up right back at the "Who" question.
Very nice article.
Thanks, Tom.
The Who thing might not be the best place to begin, but people do seem to get there eventually, haha.
Thank you, Brooks...
Thanks, Anjali.
While it might not be an easy thing to get one's head around, it is not a matter of great effort to sit with those questions to see where they might lead. For some of us, merely entertaining those thoughts are like looking at a chalkboard full of quadratic equations while we barely understand arithmetic.
I suppose this could be from a lack of understanding ourselves, if that is the right way to say it. Rarely do we take the time to really see what we're made of...but this could be a protective mechanism, as what we might find there could easily give us nightmares. ;-)
Thank you, A.
That is a good point. If the window is full of muck, you won't see through it until you clean it up a bit. Perhaps that clean up can begin with an understanding of how you operate, and the nature of thought and thinking.
Cleaning the window might be helpful and even interesting. But I'd much rather find the door and leave the room. ;-)
On a bit of a tangent. What is me doesn't only appear in conflict, there can also be a me that experiences pleasure and joy.
Thanks, Evan.
That is a good point. The 'me' is more easily noticeable through conflict, but it is present with pleasure, as well.
In pleasure, the me is getting what it wants, so there is little reason to rise up against anything. In conflict, that movement is more obvious. But it is there, either way.
Thank you for pointing that out, Evan.
I am grateful to you, Takuin, for taking the time to reply and share insights. Your words go to that deeper place beyond thought, where I cannot easily explain myself.
That being said, this sentence is particularly helpful: "As long as one hopes to drop thinking and thought, it will never be quiet. The noise comes from the interference, from the resistance."
It seems so obvious now.
You are right, "the who thing" is often confusing and a bit off-putting for most people. But every now and then.... The first time I was exposed to it, I thought it was a silly question. However, at the time I was game for anything, so I gave it my best shot. I was very pleasantly surprised. I continued to work with it to much delight on my part.
Thank you, Cate! It looks like I misplaced the 'e' in your name. Sorry!
Good luck in your explorations, Cate. Please feel free to stop in and leave your voice anytime...
Thanks, Tom.
I suspect there are many ways to arrive at that question, even if the words are entirely different. For some, Who Am I could be expressed as What is this? Or Where does this feeling originate? One might approach the specific question Who Am I and it may never touch them.
Part of the difficulty arises because many people are not even aware they can ask themselves these kind of questions.
Perhaps real curiosity must be present first...just telling someone to ask the question is never enough, if they are not anxious to find out in the first place.